Holladay Happy Hour

From Liquid to Labels

• Holladay Distillery • Episode 26

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0:00 Intro

1:19 Bourbon Smash

  • 2 oz Ben Holladay Bottled-In-Bond Bourbon
  • 3/4 oz Honey-Cinnamon Syrup
  • 3/4 oz Lemon Juice
  • 3-5 Fresh Mint Leafs

1:38 Building a brand

2:27 Welcome Rachel Dignan (Design Manager)

3:02 Where it all starts

8:47 All the dead bourbon products

13:57 Quickly and slowly building different brands

18:32 Tweaking products to make them better

18:57 Everything that goes into the process

20:57 Before there was flat Kyle, there was flat Patrick

22:17 Storytelling makes all the difference

25:12 Coming from different backgrounds

30:42 Favorite memory from launch day

33:37 What else does Kyle make?

38:57 Favorite cocktail and bourbon? 

©️2024 Holladay Distillery Weston, MO. Drink Responsibly. Drive Responsibly.

Speaker 1:

Your wife left like. So. Patrick likes to talk about flat.

Speaker 3:

Kyle a lot.

Speaker 2:

But have we mentioned that there's been? multiple flat Patrick's, because that's how this all got started. Those were hero images years ago The design team, as a way to entertain ourselves, made a flat Patrick that we left in the office and would decorate and dress up and all kinds of stuff. So, like flat Patrick happened long before flat Kyle.

Speaker 1:

I walked in to our area and I found, like I know, stephanie was part of it too. So, stephanie, she's terrible. There was like 4000 pictures of my face everywhere, like I don't know what was going on. but I didn't love me as much as I do. I had him in like super past five.

Speaker 5:

Welcome to holiday happy hour presented by the holiday distillery in Western Missouri. I'm Jordan and we've got a pretty fun happy hour playing for today. But before we get to the fun, Brendan, what are we drinking?

Speaker 4:

Today we are drinking a bourbon smash, and it is two ounces of Ben holiday bottled and bon bourbon, three quarter ounce honey, cinnamon syrup, three quarter ounce of lemon juice shaken up with some fresh mint and then garnish with a sprig of mint.

Speaker 5:

So we want to talk today about building a brand. So we talk a lot about drinking the brand, but we don't always really talk about how to build a brand. We also talk a lot about how to make the product with Kyle and all the science that goes behind that, but we do a lot of what we call like lunch and learns or we call them brunch and I don't know whatever it was. We invited Rachel to come to a hospitality meeting recently and I asked her to talk about labels and to talk about what goes into label production and the legalities of it and the design and all the things, and she came with this very impressive presentation and I was wow, I'm invited to come, I'm going to show up.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, she did show up So embarrassing with a crappy PowerPoint. No, and it was not crappy at all.

Speaker 5:

It was quite incredible. So, yeah, with that being said, you know Kyle, you know Patrick Brendan, of course, on the mic, but this is Rachel, rachel Dignan, hello. Rachel's our design manager and we're lead designer up in the marketing house and does a lot of good things, so and makes really great PowerPoints. So please don't let that be what.

Speaker 2:

I'm known for.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, you have a lot of other skills that we can share. But yeah, so we're excited to talk today to Rachel about how the design process works. But I'm just going to kind of start here, though, because I feel like with Patrick, it's always like well, this is what we're going to work on. You're kind of the leader of the ideas. It comes from you, it comes from Mick, and you say we're going to work on this, the leader of most of the ideas is Mick.

Speaker 1:

And yes, we work a lot together, but we've got a really good team of people Rachel and Brendan and Gabby and the whole group But you know, an idea is a weird thing.

Speaker 1:

So around here an idea could be something physical at our distillery as, far as a location, it could be a brand thought, it could be a thought of, you know, something that started as a cocktail that turns into something you put in a bottle. I mean, there's so many different layers of what we do, and to have a group of people that can handle all those different crazy thoughts and turn them into what they should be is that's a huge skill. It's a talent, to say the least.

Speaker 1:

So especially when you have like, because of the liquor side of it. There's tons of regulations on labels alone, Like you have things you have to do. So it's very interesting Like we've been doing this for a long time but we keep challenging ourselves and doing bigger, better things, And right now we're hitting our stride and some of the coolest brands I've seen anywhere So and Rachel's a huge piece of that- And sometimes it's like a full-fledged concept will come across my desk of like Hey, here's like a name, a product, whatever.

Speaker 2:

And then sometimes it is literally an envelope that has been doodled on by people who had maybe one too many cave collection tastings.

Speaker 5:

That was one time Rach That I then have to translate and figure out what the heck that means Great drawing And yeah, so I have an archive of some very interesting drawings between our sales team and you guys.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, ideas that we try to translate and turn into like reality.

Speaker 5:

Yes, yeah, sometimes it is kind of like you have to be a detective and kind of put all the pieces together, but that's part of the fun of it. I think that's like, really, what our company is good at is not only the unique ideas that people come up with certain people in this room.

Speaker 1:

Honestly, if you're not kind of coming up with new ideas and throwing more and more spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks, then you're just sitting stale and everything is very boring.

Speaker 1:

So you might as well just come up with some of that, the nudiest ideas for some of the coolest things, and, you know, one random thought or one joke or one conversation leads into something that could be the next big thing. I mean, five farms is kind of part of that. Yeah, johnny Hart came here, our guy we've known for years from Ireland. He sat down with Mick and wanted to get some business going because he made some of our other products in the past and we weren't doing business with him at the time. It was a let's do something and Mick told him like okay, well, give me an Irish cream made from one cow, which is ridiculous, but also it's awesome, because that led to what now is the highest rate Irish cream in history, the best tasting cream liquor ever, in my opinion. Here we are. That's how it happens. It all just starts with there are some things at the wall and it sticks.

Speaker 2:

Five farms had a lot of things thrown out the wall. I remember before it was even named, you brought this weird ceramic jug and set it on my desk and said Irish cream, county Cork go, and I'm like no other details, nothing.

Speaker 2:

We didn't have anything yet, thanks So yeah, that was definitely a throw things at the wall and see what stuck because we went through so many different versions. I think if you dig through our archives, there's different names, different bottles, different colors, before it ever even approached what it looks like now. Yeah, like you would never relate the two products if you look at the beginning and end And even that, that jug.

Speaker 1:

I remember that jug specifically. It was mainly the top. Everyone liked the top, the idea of that closure, something like our 360 line of vodka, where it's it's reusable, it's recyclable, there's all these things versus just a plastic cap or something else Like. There's something about that kind of element that made it seem authentic and real and old style. That that's what. That wasn't Obviously evolved into what it is, but that's fun.

Speaker 1:

You have to start somewhere, guys, my favorite thing is watching Rachel's reaction, depending on the amount of info she gets It's. I mean, if you piss Rachel off, things go south in a hurry, but it's fun. If you can get that reaction, then just run Like I just run.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't look back.

Speaker 1:

You do tend to drop a bomb and then run away, and I'm kind of left like all right how do I explain this to the rest of the team And we'll all start working on things.

Speaker 2:

And it's interesting to see everybody's interpretation of it because I'm like, oh, that's not what I thought he meant, But that's clearly what either Gabby or Brendan thought he meant. So that's why we work as a team. So much is just different ideas spiral and create more. And a lot of times when we're working on something, Brendan has the unfortunate seat in the marketing building where I can see his screens.

Speaker 2:

So he'll be working on something and I'm like you need to move it to the left or change that color. And I'm sure he hates it, but that's just part of the process I'm. it's what we do. I mean bounce ideas off of each other. We're always editing and like not stealing each other's ideas, but you see something you're like, oh well, i want to do it this way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the collaborative part is what makes it so special. Everyone kind of knows Beat off each other, move things around until it starts to feel like the real deal, think it's perfect, give it a mix. He's like fuck that It's all wrong, we start over And then it ends up being even better. But that is the point. We all have like the different levels in this thing, and that's why we're turning out some of the coolest packages and products that anyone's ever seen in this business. So it's all for a reason.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, when I was talking to the hospitality team. We were kind of talking about bourbon specifically, because I was like there's too many brands to cover them all. So I dove all the way back to I started in 2015. So bourbon, getting started, all of that. So I went through and pulled just a few of each of the stages of bourbon that we thought was going to be real.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So we had labels at two year, we had labels at three year, we had a label marked at a year and a half that we were going to call holiday halfway Then we had four year a five year, finally a six year, and within each of those there were probably like 50 to 100 versions.

Speaker 2:

So it's it was a very long process to ever get to the label we have now. And even the label we have now, i remember leaving on a Tuesday and we're like, all right, short up, We're going to send it to TTV on Thursday. And I came back Thursday and Brun is like you don't believe what happened yesterday, re-counting the story of riding a bike up and down the hill showing proofs, and then that Thursday evolved into me running up and down the stairs showing proofs to you guys in the garage and tweaking little bits here and there And that's honestly my favorite part of like building a brand is that final editing.

Speaker 2:

It's chaos and it's stressful, But something that we had put three or four bottles down and nobody would know the difference. But you have to point them out and they're like, oh okay, that does matter And stuff like that. That was always like my favorite part, But it was coming back that. Thursday Brendan looked like he had been through something. I did not realize that it was my turn that day, and that was a blast.

Speaker 3:

You were there for a while That was my first experience watching that. It was a lot of fun and stressful.

Speaker 1:

What's going on? I was doing all the work. What are you guys doing Like? oh, really, Watch this.

Speaker 2:

This is where it gets really bad day to wear new boots. Like my feet hurt so bad, then you could have seen Brendan pedaling on that bike.

Speaker 1:

I mean we've got golf carts. He could have been driving instead. He's coming down sweaty from. The ride down is great, The pedaling up I wouldn't want to pedal up that.

Speaker 2:

I mean, i'm old and lazy, tretcherous. Yeah, it's not a mountain bike, it was like a BMX single gear, monster energy.

Speaker 5:

Yeah it was.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was amazing, but it also has become like a an ongoing joke of typically if Rachel's not in the office. So most of our design team works for tense, which is so cool.

Speaker 1:

My first year here was for tense I thought was the greatest scam of all time. So fact we brought that back. I like it was great. But anytime Rachel's not here, major shifts happen on whatever she was a part of that. Typically she thinks we're like oh, we're almost done, and like a bomb goes off and she gets it all the next morning And it's very fun to watch that happen.

Speaker 2:

Makes me happy. Thursdays are always a real gamble on what I'm walking into.

Speaker 1:

It's Monday, Part 2 for you, I mean pretty much.

Speaker 2:

It is Monday Round 2.

Speaker 5:

She's so calm though all the time. I mean, my hair can be on fire and I'm like I don't know what to do. She's like one thing at a time.

Speaker 4:

Make a list, yeah.

Speaker 2:

You're right, yeah, she's the voice of reason.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 5:

No, it always gets done Right, always, yeah. So let me ask you this Whenever you started, was Bourbon being talked about Like? were there already design label designs in the process?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, nothing, okay. So when I started, it was we're making Bourbon. I'm like all right, cool, what else? Like we're making Bourbon?

Speaker 5:

Or trying to figure this out.

Speaker 2:

The Welcome Center was torn apart, was getting put back together to start doing tours, and stills were. They were still. I don't think Kyle had even come on just yet.

Speaker 3:

No.

Speaker 2:

So still very experimental, getting everything rolling, how do we do this, that sort of stuff? And then, for like the first couple of years I was here, the running joke was every year something was going to be due on April 1.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

The first year tourism is going to start April 1. Did not start April 1. And then the next year, something else It did start April 1.

Speaker 5:

You're right, it started April 1. I don't know if we can call that a real experience.

Speaker 2:

It's got much better since But every year for about three or four years. It would come up on mid-March And Patrick would be like all right, we're going to do this thing, let's do April 1. And I'm like are you shitting?

Speaker 4:

me Like please stop with April 2. Say April 2 for the love of God.

Speaker 5:

I mean even whenever we did the rehab of McCormick on Maine downtown April 1.

Speaker 3:

Bourbon cutting Bourbon launching.

Speaker 2:

That's our day. That's our day. That's our day. Yeah, I curse April 1.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, kind of grown to like it. We're planning the next April 1.

Speaker 2:

Right now Just don't know what it is, yet We're starting the process, the fact that you're planning it now is a relief, because usually you don't plan it till March 1. It's an unplanned plan.

Speaker 1:

March 1 is when the actual plan takes. Yeah.

Speaker 5:

Just know what's coming, right, yes, yeah.

Speaker 3:

I mean, is it intentional with April Fool's Day? Like I'm not in the loop on this, no, it just.

Speaker 2:

It was completely accidental, like somebody had just said, april 1. We're going to do tours, and then every year after that it became a joke.

Speaker 5:

But then, like we really did a thing yeah, on April 1. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5:

So it's fun. It's a lot of fun. It's our day.

Speaker 1:

Well, with building brands, some things happen quickly. So I'm rewinding my brain to 360 Vodka And I was back at the ad agency for the company at that time, out in Los Angeles, and the idea came through of let's create the world's first eco-friendly vodka, right? So that seed is planted And in nine months we had distribution of a finished brand on the best vodka's ever made in every single way 50 states in nine months. It was crazy.

Speaker 5:

That's fast.

Speaker 1:

So some things can happen at that level, Other things, like we're talking about bourbon. we've been working on this for nine years straight.

Speaker 1:

And not since we've started stilling, because obviously now we have some bourbon that's seven years plus old. There was a year and a half two years of preparing the location, restoring it back to its historical set, of redoing a still making everything around here so that someone comes up here for a tour Awesome, i mean really a night and day shift in the entire company is kind of philosophy in where we were as far as who we are locally and what we mean to the community. Because we're out in the hills of Western Beautiful Like historic location. Lewis and Clark charted our original spring, all these cool things, but we were really hidden. No one knew about us. People still don't know enough about us in Kansas City alone. It's 15 minutes down the rip, so it's a process that takes that many years. It's almost harder because you have time to tweak and rethink and rethink again and go again, and we did that.

Speaker 1:

That's the longest process I've ever been a part of, especially with the whole team. But to develop what started with Ben Holiday and now Holiday Soft Red, out of all that time, knowing that it all paid off, is pretty cool. And you throw this guy's juice and the bottle on top of it.

Speaker 5:

It's not a magical thing, right I?

Speaker 3:

remember the. So you brought up the Holiday Halfway or Halfway Home, whatever it was, and I remember getting those labels and thinking man, why did anyone waste their time on this? I don't want to put Berman in, i want to wait. What's the rush? And obviously I still would have if that was the decision. But I'm glad we didn't because I was not sure what I was going to put in there There's a whole graveyard of projects that never made it out of marketing.

Speaker 2:

So, many things I've worked on that never ended up coming to be, or there's just different ideas that went by the wayside. So that's just a common thing with design is that very small portion of what you actually work on ever makes it out into the world, and sometimes we have a very long time. Like Berman, it took years and years and years. Other times we have products that got out in months.

Speaker 2:

I remember designing for Wicked Pickle. All of us were working on different labels, trying to get the right vibe, bouncing things around. That went so quickly, it was just chaotic. And then you have other brands, like Tequila Rose to, where it went through a rebranding right before I started. But even changing over back to glass bottles took a few years before everybody started recognizing it and getting used to it. And then even then we switched to thermochromatic labels. That took a couple of years to get rolled out and switched over. So our timelines are very inconsistent. Sometimes you're moving really quick, sometimes you're just waiting to see if a tweak that you made two years ago is going to pay off.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, it's endless different opportunities of where it's all at and how it could all be.

Speaker 3:

Sorry, don't mind me, i'm just over here.

Speaker 4:

I wanted my drink.

Speaker 3:

You're reaching over my drink And this is the first time I've ever moved my mic during a podcast.

Speaker 4:

It just feels weird, like I'm not, you look weird doing it. Yeah, it's so weird.

Speaker 3:

No, i feel You try to grab yours next. I will, but we'll make a game out of it.

Speaker 1:

Just kind of back and forth. No, but all these different things as you go through it, the different timelines, different priorities, different levels but it is very interesting that it's never the same way Every time we work on something. it's different. It's a different intensity, different speed, different priority level. It's fun, like right now, we're doing a whole lot of things to kind of get in and make things even better on some of our products, kind of historical products of how can we tweak things that we're good and make them great.

Speaker 1:

I mean, there's so many different ways you could look at things, and that could be packaging, that could be environmental benefits of packaging itself or the product, it could be sugar levels. I mean all these different things you have to look at from Kyle's side, managing the lab and kind of that piece of the product, of the meticulous nature of how you can create something, 100,000 different ways and you have to find the right way and then what you put it in, but it really is a neat process.

Speaker 1:

It's. my favorite thing to do is kind of the reworking, honestly.

Speaker 2:

Well, we've talked about the liquid and the packaging and labels a lot, But I mean, building a brand is so much more than that, because it comes into the copywriting and PR. What is the voice of this brand, What's the story of it? How are we going to talk about it? Who do we think is going to connect with it? And then the photography team has to take bottle shots, hero images, lifestyle images and work with social media And that sort of stuff. So it really there's a very all-encompassing piece that obviously you have to have a package, but you have to craft this entire experience that somebody's going to have and treat it as the brand is an experience And the product is like what they decide they want to take home with it.

Speaker 3:

What is a hero image?

Speaker 1:

So a hero image. I have no idea what that is. It's mainly a picture of me Like cool Yeah.

Speaker 3:

I definitely set you up for that and that was way too easy. Sorry about that.

Speaker 2:

So a hero image would be like a single shot where you're trying to kind of give the overall vibe of the brand but you're still showing off the bottle. So sometimes when you do lifestyle images, it's cocktails, people holding the bottle. The bottle might be at different angles, moodier lighting, but with a hero image everything is still very properly lit. It's what gets used in advertisements a lot, or, like our banners, that sort of stuff. So it's really just how can we make this the prettiest, the bottle the prettiest, without it being isolated on like a white background?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's like the image that you can use in multiple applications of like, present, the brand, whatever that is, anytime we go on the road and we have to set up the all the giant backdrops.

Speaker 3:

That's a hero image.

Speaker 2:

Pretty much.

Speaker 3:

OK, cool.

Speaker 2:

Anything that you would like put on a canvas or as art would be considered like a lifestyle image, but if it's being used more in an advertisement sense, then it leans towards a hero image.

Speaker 1:

We do have a hero image of Kyle Well.

Speaker 5:

I mean flat.

Speaker 1:

Kyle. We've talked about flat Kyle and that's your hero image. Your wife loved flat Kyle.

Speaker 2:

So Patrick likes to talk about flat Kyle a lot. But have we mentioned that there's been? multiple flat Patrick's, because that's how this all got started.

Speaker 1:

None of those were hero images.

Speaker 2:

Years ago the design team, as a way to entertain ourselves, made a flat Patrick that we left in the office and would decorate and dress up and all kinds of stuff. So flat Patrick happened long before flat Kyle.

Speaker 1:

I walked in to our area and I found like and I know Stephanie was a part of it too, so, stephanie, she's terrible There was like 4,000 pictures of my face everywhere, like I don't know what was going on, but I didn't love me as much as I do, i'd have been like super pissed, but I didn't know it was fun.

Speaker 5:

I think I remember walking in at one point and Flatpatrick was holding a whopper like a cheeseburger.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 5:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I mean why not?

Speaker 5:

I mean, he's done a lot of things. He's been to a lot of cool places.

Speaker 2:

We're getting a whole collection, like I mean, between Flatpatrick Flatkyle.

Speaker 5:

Jonado We did introduce Jonado a few weeks ago.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a whole crew going on in the marketing building. It's a family.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, it's fun, it's a good time.

Speaker 1:

So we do other things besides design labels, branding ourselves Flat versions.

Speaker 5:

Life-size images. But you mentioned you did mention copywriting and storytelling, and that is a big piece too of what we do, right? So the website that's always a big one, yes, where it's like oh, we need to figure out, like, how we want people to think about this brand, or whenever they're researching it, like what do we want them to know about it? and as short of a few sentences possible, like how can we grab them? And so that's always hard too to start thinking about. Okay, like we can sit down and write forever, but what is that first grab that's really going to get people to stay. I mean, your beautiful images definitely help, brendan, you're a rock star at that. And then, yeah, then we have to tell the people about it.

Speaker 5:

So in comes Audrey on the social media which we introduced Audrey a few weeks ago too, but yeah, there's a lot of working pieces to it And luckily I feel very fortunate that our team is in-house So it's very easy for us to communicate. We have our ways of just like getting in touch with each other very quickly, so it's not like we have to send off outside to another company And nothing wrong with that, but I think it just helps us to move things along faster.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, you're obviously a huge piece of that, with the storytelling and the copywriting and us putting all the things together to tell the story. One thing I will say that I think is super refreshing that what we do here is we focus on the word real. A lot Like the things that we're making are real. We're not just making random brands that are from somewhere that mean nothing. Like the things that we're producing now mean something. They're a part of us. They're cutting no corners, like we're trying to do everything and make everything as real as possible. Urban, for us, was we're not going to do it unless it's perfect for how this location operates, what we did in the past and what we can do into the future. Five farms literally developed the entire process from start to finish, went and met the farmers and their families.

Speaker 1:

To select those five farms is wild and it makes our jobs kind of easy when it comes to that the storytelling, because there's an actual story to tell Coming from the other side building brands, when, again, adding to the side of things Rachel's been there too You could have a client that comes to you with name your product. That, basically, is just a giant pile of random thought sourced by whatever they could think up and you need to make it hit some crazy level of sales or whatever their target is.

Speaker 1:

But if there's nothing there, if there's no real substance, those are the things that should probably be doomed like they shouldn't exist because it's a half-assed thought. Our thoughts here, everything we do here and the team we have is about that making it real, doing it right and that is a lot of fun to play on that side of it versus the other. I mean like what's one of the weirdest things you worked on from your old days before you got here?

Speaker 2:

So my agency that I worked for was a lot smaller, targeted, mostly small businesses, so everybody who came in super passionate about what they did. But sometimes they would be really niche. Like we had a lady who made custom dog beds where you could pick out the fabrics and embroider your dog's name and all of these crazy things and she was so passionate about it but her ideas were like so off the wall that sometimes you're like okay, i don't even know how to begin to tackle this. And then, like agency side, obviously you're working with clients so you have to consider their input and what their ideas are and kind of figure out the nice way to tell them when you don't think something's a good idea.

Speaker 2:

So that is like a big part of navigating agency life. And so I remember working on things where you started out really excited about them and by the time you turned over the project you were just like drained. You're like I don't want to see this ever again. I hope I forget that I ever worked on it. But being an in-house designer, you get to like take some ownership in the brands and really like develop your own relationship with them. And how does their styling change over the years, so that even though there's been some like weird off the wall stuff here, i think it's not nearly as comparable to agency life.

Speaker 1:

Agreed. No, i mean, that's one of the things that drew me to knowing when there was an opportunity to come and work for our company Moving from the West Coast out here.

Speaker 1:

to me it was a no-brainer because it's there's some of the only brands I ever worked on that it felt like oh yeah, this I feel like I'm a part of this in some way, because you work on all these things and people come and go and companies and clients come and go, but it's pretty neat being a part of what we're doing here now and and then building the team from that point has been fun. And, kyle, you, i mean you're now in the brand business, like with Bourbon. That wasn't your world, but you're an ambassador and a face and you're a part of what we're doing, so much fun.

Speaker 3:

He loves it.

Speaker 1:

I love it, i mean because talking about like kind of what you did before in comparison to and even leading up to launch, like how much is your life shifted?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, i mean I.

Speaker 5:

This bright light shining on your face.

Speaker 3:

I'm getting a sunburn from all the lights in this building right now. But yeah, no, i being the engineer type, being the nerd type, you are very much behind the scenes and then it's suddenly like, oh hey, you know you need to go talk about everything and it's very dramatically different. And yeah, that's It's been obviously a challenge, just because I am that introvert type of person. But I think it's even going back to a point previously, like it's a lot easier when it's a real thing, it's real bourbon that I enjoy making, and so talking about it isn't that difficult. But yeah, it's definitely different and unique for me. And the first month I think of that I was trying to get used to it and we had all those launches that we've talked about before and and I think after every single different presentation that I did or tasting that I did, patrick would be like, hey, yeah, that was good, next time do this.

Speaker 4:

Say that Don't use that word.

Speaker 3:

You need to change it up. Words matter. I was back when I thought he was, you know, useful and knew what he was talking about, and so I listened to him. He's the worst. Here we are.

Speaker 1:

No, it is funny but and part of my enjoying this guy turning into the clear asshole he has now become, which I love for it. But you know, in some of those, like those initial events, my favorite things were we had plenty of people that really came up and some people are just downright like cocky about how much of a bourbon person they are and what they know and what they know about the process And listen.

Speaker 1:

There's plenty of people that know a lot of things. It's fun, but a few times when a couple of those people might have sat down with this guy and then you can hear him very calmly explain, like how real life is and what is actually happening versus some of their thoughts.

Speaker 3:

I mean he's a lot of cliches and they just like it's not based on science and it drives me nuts. But yeah, there was kind of going back again to the change and I guess my personality I don't know That's not a good thing. But earlier this week we had a barrel pick and the guy that was doing that he said he was up here for one of those events And he's like I think my favorite part was just how awkward you were during the tasting.

Speaker 4:

It's like thanks.

Speaker 3:

Thanks man, thank you I appreciate that, but I probably am still equally as awkward, but at least I'm a little bit more comfortable being awkward in front of people.

Speaker 1:

So you've popped out of your shell a lot. Yeah, i think you've owed it.

Speaker 5:

Kyle.

Speaker 1:

It's different when you're throwing in it all the time. It gets easier, you get more used to what's going on And it is especially at the beginning, like again building that brand and been a holiday, that first launch day, and you know six, seven, eight years in the making, if you pull it all into account. And then you have everyone that's going to taste it and start to judge and talk and do all the things And thankfully we're making some of the best bourbon ever made in the history of anything ever. So that's been easier. But you know you have to prepare yourself mentally for those thoughts, those conversations how's this thing gonna go? who's gonna say what? who's gonna write what? I mean? everything comes to play and so it goes.

Speaker 2:

Okay, the design team leading up to launch day was like a little chaotic because we have the package done and out the door. And then, like a month before launch, we're like, oh god, we need like banners and backdrops and developing all these things. And then I was talking to Brendan earlier today. One of my favorite memories from launch day actually stemmed from that of we found out we had sold out. So I went upstairs, grabbed a banner that I had made that said sold out, brought it down to Mick and Patrick to put on to the front to say that we were sold out.

Speaker 2:

And Mick kind of looked at me for a second like I was crazy for having made it ahead of time. And he's like, did you really make a sold out banner? and I was like, yeah, we did. Like had no idea if we would need it, but we hoped, and so that was like really kind of a cool part of the Ben launch. And luckily, with software, i'd like I think we were a little more okay. We've done this for professionals. Yeah, and it was still even when you got to launch day. You're like, okay, yeah, this is still different, didn't?

Speaker 4:

know as much as we thought we did, but it was so much fun.

Speaker 2:

In a very different way, i worked like pre-sell pickup on software at launch and so seeing the people who came back, who had met you before they were asking where Kyle was that asking about what else we had going on and we had just done Rick House proof, so getting to like send him inside to check out that sort of stuff. People like, once they've been here and meet the team and experience holiday, i mean, just something clicks they're our friends.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, just become part. Part of it turns into fun.

Speaker 1:

Yeah it's like the brand becomes a full experience, like that's what you want to happen right you're not just making something that's you know there's a label in a bottle, there's liquid, but it's everything that's built around it. The the time you share drinking it with friends, like we're doing now. The the moments and the memories you have on those launch days, our man Brandon almost passing out behind the bar of that launch day and then he was like about to pass out, couldn't, didn't.

Speaker 1:

I mean, he's like fainting it was like three of us were solid, like we were ready to go solid term but yeah, yeah, i was something.

Speaker 2:

I'll give Brendan some credit he gets voluntold a lot yeah and different people would be like, hey, we should do this. And he's always the first one to jump in and say like, alright, i'll figure out how and he does I always tell him I was like I'm sorry, my mouth gets you into a lot of extra work, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

I mean, they always feel very bad making fun of him when he doesn't have a mic, that's honestly it makes me super happy he's got the headphones listening. You just can't speak everything we say, he's looking right at us.

Speaker 5:

It's definitely judging us that's a very.

Speaker 3:

It is quite good.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, i know I have to move my mic. Get my drink back to the goods okay, i do want to ask one, or bring up one thing too, about building brands when it comes to Kyle. So we talked a lot about how Kyle makes bourbon right, we all know that you make a lot of other things.

Speaker 3:

I, i work on things.

Speaker 5:

Yes, so Kyle, with his science lab background, works on a lot of different flavor component excuse me, flavor components. Brendan, your smash is getting to me for different products, so it might be like, okay, i don't want to give anything away, but I know he's working on some cool stuff right now yes to where it's like okay, we want this flavor profile.

Speaker 5:

Okay, maybe remove a little sugar, like what Patrick said. Or maybe we take this product and just swap out the spirit, and there's different ways where he's always looking at the back end of that. Yeah, we know how to taste it and what we like and what tastes good, but Kyle is looking at is it stable? is it going to mix well with other vodka's? can it be mixed with citrus right curdle, like there's so many things yeah it, it is a lot of fun doing that.

Speaker 3:

I like creating or making things. It's still kind of it's a different side of it right, that it's it's flavor, but you're still ultimately using very structured methodology to create things and that's that's fun for me. It's very weird, i get it, but, like, i enjoy doing that and it's just every aspect of it. You have to think about it, whether it's, you know, scalable or shelf stable or what, everything that you talk about, and so it's just, yeah, it's, it's all about creating things and in the way that you know, i could never. I could never do any sort of label or hero image or any of that stuff, because that's not how my brain works, but the, the structured type of engineering style. That's that's where I'm at and I enjoy that, and so that's what we do. I haven't even talked about the background, but that's what we do in here is the lab, the city, the library make things so I have the lab, or else we don't have any reason to design labels.

Speaker 2:

I mean, if we're like Patrick said, if you're just slapping labels on any old product and it's not worth drinking, somebody'll buy it once because of the way it looks. You'll never buy it again like we convince people to buy it not knowing anything but your liquid and what's in the bottle is what convinces people to become brand fans and loyal and that sort of stuff yeah, gotta be right.

Speaker 5:

You know, do it the right way yeah, we'll have to bring on some of Kyle's new new products here sometime. One of these days could be fun. I mean, i do love bourbon, but there's some other fun stuff happening it's the kind of thing I I also get judged.

Speaker 3:

I usually don't take it to Mick right away, i take it to Patrick and he immediately is like yeah, no, this is shit. Like, so you know, we have to always go through that, but it's, you know, it is the taste drives it, and then everything else adds into it as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's fun yeah, i mean, there's the door.

Speaker 2:

Just he's tried so hard to close it quietly, but it's just like the loudest yeah, quite close ever in the history of doors, like when walked in. I mean I thought we were safe because Joe's out of town, but the Joe NATO can hit at any time he just influences others.

Speaker 1:

But yes, back to Kyle. We are always working on. Again. I go back to creating something from scratch is fun, but I really really like taking something that might have existed and making it better and if you have something, that's what we're very careful with launching anything new, because if you do if you cut a corner, or if you compromise and do something maybe this way instead of that way, and if maybe we push a little harder, we could have gone that way.

Speaker 1:

All those tiny details can make or break a brand being, you know, from 10,000 cases a year to 3 million, i mean you just never know what that is.

Speaker 1:

So it's fun to be able to take and tweak little things that were way before all of our time. We've been around 167 years a little bit of history continuously operating, not like some people out there that might throw a number out there and they just started three years ago. We just never know what it is. There's lots of history people adapt to. We've been doing it this whole time. So we naturally have products that are old before all of our time and if you can take those and as, like you know, flavor profiles and people's taste buds shift and everything kind of changes over the years. So a little tweak skill a long way. I mean we've done it. We've we've done that with brands from the beginning to Keyla Rose is one of our biggest brands worldwide. It's an amazing phenomenon right now in the UK, unbelievable things happening with that brand. But I mean even that formula. It started in 93. It's changed about six different times as things go along and how you can kind of noodle and make things better.

Speaker 1:

So yeah it's not just the outside or the package that you update. labels That's one thing, but like what shifts do, and that's all the part of the process you know that's a good point.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, and that's all done. Here We could make some really cool stuff guys.

Speaker 4:

We've got all the pieces here.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, that's good. Well, rachel, when we invite people to holiday happy hour, we always ask what their favorite bourbon is or cocktail. What's your favorite? I need to know.

Speaker 2:

Cocktail is easy 1856, old fashioned, with an embarrassing amount of the Luxardo cherries because they're the greatest.

Speaker 1:

How much is an embarrassing amount?

Speaker 2:

Like I want the bartender to be a little uncomfortable giving me that, yeah, he's like listen.

Speaker 1:

there's $70 and cherries in the box. They just like take one out of the jar, take another, another.

Speaker 3:

Keep them coming.

Speaker 2:

So that's my favorite cocktail easily, but I'm with Jordan, i'm team Ben. I like that little bit of extra spice. That's got going on Sure, and I think probably like October has been my favorite October.

Speaker 1:

October Ben was a magical month. We've talked about that multiple times, but that to me, i just our distributors from Illinois were in yesterday And we were talking about October Ben And what I have narrowed it down to me as being is you could have a bourbon like some some of the months that we're releasing now this May Rick house of our soft red is insane. That's phenomenal. So some things will just hit you and you're like, oh my God, october was like if you drink a bourbon and it hits your palate and it's just so, just velvety and and damn near perfect on just being an easy, drinking, amazing bourbon. That is October. Like it was soft, it had a little bit of that rye bite from the Ben recipe It was.

Speaker 2:

It was almost like somewhere between a melding of wheat and rye and the sense of it. Yeah, Had a closer finish to the wheat but it had that rye flavor.

Speaker 1:

It was So yeah it was an interesting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but I'm, I'm with Jordan team Ben.

Speaker 4:

I mean it's one. It's right when I started.

Speaker 2:

It was the first big launch. I remember the whole process of the label. So, yeah, yeah, I as much as I think soft red has great things about it and I do enjoy it.

Speaker 5:

If.

Speaker 3:

I'm picking a bottle and it'd be Ben, there you go.

Speaker 5:

Like it.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes you have to pick, just grab one and pour it. What I do to all have a favorite kid, you just don't tell it to their face. Oh yeah, for sure. No, i mean, i also say I'm supposed to tell.

Speaker 2:

If you want to, you know, let them know the ranking order.

Speaker 3:

That's what my I mean he's against each other right, Straight up tell them which is her favorite and which is her not Like.

Speaker 2:

she knows how to work the system.

Speaker 3:

So that's your goal, as long as I tell them why they slipped in the ranking, yeah.

Speaker 4:

Like they can work on improving that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it just be a little bit. That sounds very engineering of you, yeah.

Speaker 1:

I know you're four, but I'm not going to give you these goldfish. Your brother is going to get them because you're not my favorite today.

Speaker 5:

I'm not going to say Good job, kyle, he's better than you. Yeah, it's good to be honest with people.

Speaker 2:

Kyle, I like that. Do you have a spreadsheet ranking your children? I mean, I should. Or they don't see anyone Maybe Google, google?

Speaker 3:

I heard that was a hot topic.

Speaker 1:

All the hands for a reason to Glen Caron's two bourbons.

Speaker 5:

Oh that's true, that's true Love for both.

Speaker 1:

Yes, side drinks. Yeah, the reason you can't side drink with.

Speaker 5:

No, there is absolutely no rule.

Speaker 1:

That's the.

Speaker 5:

Patrick classic.

Speaker 1:

Honestly, the next podcast I'm probably going to side drink with another. Just to prove the point.

Speaker 5:

I think so. Yeah, we'll do that. Well, guys Look forward to building more brands with you. It's been fun. Cheers to team Ben. Cheers, that doesn't click, that doesn't click. That's not as cool.

Speaker 1:

Never, ever have a broken parenthesis that ends active events.